Comment by Robbie Doyle on June 8, 2014 at 3:29pm

I think you are missing my point. There was local knowledge of this mass grave of infants for decades. Catherine Corless' fantastic and tireless research in uncovering the names and cause of deaths for these 796 children has been public for years. The tragedy of how these remains were treated by the religious order that had a responsibility for their well-being would not have come to light unless this sad tale had sensationalist headlines. Now it's of public concern. Now it will get an investigation that it deserves. Maybe now those responsible will be held to account. The days of blind defence of, and deference to, the Catholic orders and their ilk are fading fast.

Comment by Neil F. Cosgrove on June 8, 2014 at 4:05pm

There has been a great deal of Heat and Smoke on this issue, thankfully Kelly you have started to shed some light.  In the tabloid feeding frenzy, not to mention politicians tripping over each other to use this issue for their own agenda some basic facts have been lost.  The one fact that is undeniable is that the death of nearly 800 people, especially children, is a tragedy and the fact that their final resting place(s) is unknown an affront to human dignity.  However, it would now be a further indignity to now use these people to further agendas whether it is for personal publicity, to feed personal bias, or as we sadly see to sell newspapers. 

We owe it to these people to get to the truth, and here I have several issues in the way this tragedy is being investigated/portrayed. I am going to apologize in advance for being detached and clinical, but if we are going to get to the truth I believe thst is the best approach:

• As you point out Kelly, this is not a new story; with remains having been found in the 1970’s and apparently no action by the state, the home having long beem closed.  The fact that there were burials in this areas seems well established, in fact some of the earlier reports indicated there could be burials from the famine and the building’s previous history as a Workhouse.  It is hard to both make a case for a conspiracy (as some tabloids are doing) while at the same time point to health inspector’s reports and what appears to be copious documentation.  I must confess that I do wonder if these deaths were attributed to the Workhouse or a non-religious institution, would many of the tabloids that are getting so much mileage out of the story and its Church connection even pick up the story?   Given the recent success of the movie “Philomena”, I have to confess as to suspicions on the timing of this (old) “revelation”; some of those now wagging their fingers claim they have known about this situation for some time, have they not been guilty of being complicit in their silence up until now?
• As Kelly points out, this story has morphed and transformed with every reporting, and it is sadly rife with sensational yellow journalism.  I am very disgusted that many “reporters” for the sake of an easy story have carelessly immediately gone to imagery that this facility was a “death camp”; praying off our modern day expectation that children invariably grow up and reach adulthood and that if large numbers of children are found to have died there MUST be foul play.  Where  this misses is that we are, thank God, spoiled to live in an age of antibiotics and inoculations. In the first half of the twentieth century common childhood diseases were killers.  Anecdotal evidence in my own family is that on both sides I lost aunts and uncles in 1920’s America to pneumonia and rheumatic fever and this was urban NYC with access to a wide medical system; one can imagine what the mortality rate must have been in rural Ireland during the same time period.  It is particularly poor journalism that very little has been stated about the nature of this home; but the one fact that was mentioned, but conveniently not explored by the tabloid journalist, is that this home was not only operated by Nuns, but by Bon Secur Nuns; a nursing order dedicated to treating those seriously ill.   Given the story by the Irish Times it appears that some of these children were seriously ill, and may have been so prior to their admission and this may more than account for the mortality rate. This is analogous to the fact that some of our best hospitals today also have some of the highest mortality rates, not because of malpractice or neglect but because they take on the cases that no one else will touch.   
• As to the lack of dignity associated with the burials, as much as that looks clear to us with 20-20 21^st century hindsight again, I would like to see more investigation.  It does appear from the some articles and todays Irish Times   that there is an area that is a known cemetery that is cared for and tended to, though maybe not to the standards of dignity that we now expect. The fact that we don’t know where the majority of these children are laid means that any judgment as to how they were treated is speculation.  Just recently in Atlanta, Georgia 85 graves were found under a golf course, the site of an Atlanta “Alms house” that operated at about the same time as this facility in Galway.  Down the road from me is an old NY State Psychiatric Facility, it too operated from the 1920s till 1970s and has a large graveyard where former residents were buried without markers.  The frequency of this practice doesn’t in any way mitigate it, but it does show that this was an accepted practice and attitude concerning institutional burials that existed in different societies, thousands of miles apart and not something peculiar to one locality or faith.

I doubt I will change anyone’s mind who for various reasons, biases  and motives have already dawn their conclusions, but to me the only way this tragedy could be made worse is if these children’s tragic death were being used to further agendas and careers both political and journalistic.  We owe it to them to do proper historical research with forensics and an open mind and try to tell their true story without bias or sensationalism

Comment by Ryan O'Rourke on June 8, 2014 at 4:06pm

Hear, hear!  Well said, Neil.

Comment by Robbie Doyle on June 8, 2014 at 5:20pm

I don't understand the pontificating here about journalistic protocols. This story isn't about "Freddie Starr ate my hamster" type sensationalism. This is about bringing the wider public's attention to the deaths of hundreds of long-forgotten children. Does the end not justify the means? No one is asking America to invade Tuam on account of a false story. This is now shining a light on how these institutions were run. From child abuse investigations to exposing Magdalene laundries for what they were, modern Irish society is learning from the mistakes of the past. These headlines will either be a hindrance to, or a catalyst for, remembering the hundreds who died in these institutions. Time will tell.

Comment by Toni Maguire on June 8, 2014 at 6:36pm

I have been working in Northern Ireland for a number of years to highlight the issue of such burial grounds across Ireland, including the Milltown Cemetery site in Belfast were we recovered the remains of 11,000 infants, children and adults in mass inhumation graves located in The Bog Meadows; the burials continued in this way into the 1990's so the notion that 'It was a different time' does not stand up to scrutiny.  There is no excuse for the lack of compassion shown here, it is what it is; the disposal of the most vulnerable and innocent in our care and we must all accept that. before we can decide how to move forward.

The sale of the land by the Sisters for redevelopment is a stark warning to us all of the fragility of these burial grounds and the need to identify their presence in the landscape and protect them from inialiation with the total loss of so much social history.  A number of us associated directly with the research into this issue held an online discussion on The Wild Geese not long ago, the focus of which was marginalised unmarked burial exactly like the burials in Galway.  I would expect to find a number of areas of burial at this site, not just one and the presence of remains in the septic tank does not confirm that they are the remains of the children who died there during the 'Mother and Baby Home' phase.

 

I have cautioned a big step back and a deep breath by all concerned, but we can not deny that during a period when these children should not have been dying in the numbers they were, the mortality rate was exceptional and worrying and yet I see little direction from the Irish Government on a much needed investigation.  

 

Comment by Geraldine Callaghan on June 8, 2014 at 10:41pm

I agree with Ryan O'Rourke, the job of a journalist is to report the facts, not speculation to drum up hype and fast condemnation; I also agree that Irish Central has become a Tabloid. Either way it's a sad situation, hopefully the truth will come out and the families can get closure.

Comment by Kelly O'Rourke on June 9, 2014 at 4:11am

Toni,  I had read about your work, and alluded to it briefly in the article.  Thank you for your thoughts.  The reality is sad enough without exaggeration.  We must honour the deceased by remembering and telling their stories.  Even more importantly we must honour them by creating a culture which values each human life and sees no person as disposable.  Sadly, our children may be erecting memorials to the victims of our generation, too:

  http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2013/04/why-dr-kermit-g...

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/mar/24/aborted-miscarried-...

Comment by Robbie Doyle on June 9, 2014 at 5:40pm

Oops... Seems that dastardly "tabloid" website, Irish Central, was correct about its medical trials story. Major TV investigation shown in 2011 and repeated tonight on RTE reveals that thousands of medical trials were indeed carried out on babies in these institutions. Also revealed that over 400 babies who died in the Catholic run institutions were sent to anatomy departments in universities for dissection and medical education. Still not trust that website, Ryan? Amazing what a sensationalist headline can begin!

Comment by Ryan O'Rourke on June 9, 2014 at 5:42pm

Robbie ... I don't think Irish Central were the first to break that particular story, were they? You can correct me if I'm wrong. And even if they were, I suppose even a tabloid -- which they are -- breaks a true story every once in a while. Nevermind all the B.S. one must sift through to find it. But hey ... if that appeals to someone, who am I to hold them back?

Comment by Robbie Doyle on June 9, 2014 at 5:56pm

I agree with Belinda. We've both been involved with The Wild Geese for a while. You can sit and wait to jump on a bandwagon while all the internet traffic goes elsewhere. Or you can publicise what is happening in this fast moving story. Belinda's piece about Toni Maguire's involvement is a start.

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