Comment by Gerry Regan on May 10, 2013 at 7:34am

Tell us more about this man, when you can, Kieron? Was her Irish, for example? Birthplace? 

Comment by Kieron Punch on May 10, 2013 at 9:08am

Ger, Arthur Holt was born 22 November, 1866, in Colaba, Bombay, India. He died 4 October, 1944, in Dublin. He spent most of his early life in India because his father, William John Holt, was stationed there as an officer in the British Army (first with the 4th King's Own Regiment, and then with the 2nd Queen's Royal West Surrey Regiment). Arthur's mother was Alice Violet Murphy (also born in Bombay) who was daughter of Dublin born Robert Xavier Murphy (my GGG-Grandfather) who was Chief Translator to the Bombay Supreme Court. In the late 1880s/early 1890s the family was in Ireland following Colonel William John Holt's promotion to command of the Belfast military district. Arthur married Dublin girl, Johann Coughlan, 25 November, 1887, at St.Paul's, Arran Quay, which is about 100 yards upriver from the Four Courts.

Arthur and Johanna lived most of their life in Dublin, apart from when Arthur was serving for the Colonial Office in Africa, and also for a period in the early 1890s when they were living in the United States - two of their children were born there.

I have yet to establish for certain whether, or not, my Holt ancestors were Irish. Arthur, as mentioned above, was born in India, but his father, William John, was born in Plymouth where his father, William, was stationed with his regiment, the 29th Foot, in which he served as Quartermaster-Sergeant. Before that, though, William had served for years as Quartermaster-Sergeant with the 18th Regiment of Foot, which was the Royal Irish Regiment, and one of his other sons, Frederick (William John's brother) was born in Tipperary - the Regiment's main recruiting depot. When William retired from the army in 1854, by then a Captain, he returned to Ireland and settled in Dublin where he served as Quartermaster with the Dublin Militia. The fact that he settled in Ireland rather than England would suggest that he was Irish born. It was also in Ireland that his son, William John Holt (my GG-Grandfather) married Alice Violet Murphy (now also returned from India) and they were married in Monkstown, south of Dublin. There appears to be a strong possibility that William Holt, by have been related to General Holt, the United Irishman, who commanded the rebel forces in Wicklow.

Comment by Kieron Punch on May 10, 2013 at 10:08am

Correction...I know for sure that William Holt, the Quartermaster, was not born in Ireland. He was born in Malta in March, 1802. His father, John Holt, was serving in Malta with the Royal Artillery - the British having captured Malta from the French not long before - and he was accompanied by his wife, Susan/Susanna (my GGGG-Grandmother). It is John Holt who may have been born in Ireland and was possibly related to General Holt. One of these days I must attempt to track down his Royal Artillery service record to see if it provides any details about his origins.

Comment by Bit Devine on May 10, 2013 at 2:26pm

Thanks for sharing this with us Kieron... Unraveling family roos is a wonderful challenge!

Comment by Mari Steed on November 19, 2015 at 3:17pm

Kieron, you're not going to believe this, but Arthur R.E. Holt is my great-grandfather as well. I am the daughter of Arthur J. White, son of Edward White and Arthur's daughter Mabel.

Comment by Kieron Punch on November 20, 2015 at 7:30am

It's a small world, Mari! That would mean we are second cousins. I don't know too much about your side of the family but would I be right in thinking that it was your father who was the renowned singer who toured with the Hollywood actress, Movita, and the Irish heavyweight boxer, Jack Doyle?My mother, Philomena (nee Gleeson) remained in touch - though very infrequently - with Aldine White and Mary Cecilia (Cecily?) White, who I believe would be your aunts, and have met their respective children, David Hilton, and Freda and Joseph King, who would be your first cousins.
If it was not for your grandmother, Mabel, I would not exist. I'm sure you know that she was an excellent pianist and violinist but you may not know that she used to play along to silent films in the Colosseum Cinema in Limerick and was also a music teacher there. As she was very busy with this work her sister Olga (my grandmother) who also played the piano, came from Dublin to stay with Mabel to help look after her young children (I think at least one of the girls, Mary?, was born in Limerick). One of the women to whom Mabel gave music lessons was, Mae Long, who was a cousin of my grandfather, Tom Gleeson - a renowned banjo player. Through her contact with Mabel, Mae Long also came into contact with Olga, and it was Mae who introduced Olga to Tom and so helped spark the love that would lead to their marriage. Incidentally, Olga and Tom wound up playing in the same orchestra as Mabel at the Colosseum Cinema.

You may be interested in the following photo of my parents' wedding. Second from right is Mabel's sister Una Holt and behind her is her husband, Philip Henry (Harry) Benham. Next to Una, in the black coat, is Mabel's other sister, Olga (my grandmother). Do you have any information about what became of Mabel's third sister, Eileen, who disappeared around 1911 and was never heard from again (at least not by my side of the family)?

Comment by Mari Steed on June 16, 2017 at 8:46am

That's incredible. To be honest, I'm sort of a "wrong side of the blanket" relation, the result of an affair between Arthur White and my late mum. I was actually put in touch with Arthur's family by Dave Hilton, who spotted a gen board post I'd put up. I've been in touch with Arthur's eldest daughter Jean, who did mention Arthur had been a boy soprano in Ireland, but didn't know about his other musical/theatrical proclivities. I think I've also found some info indicating his grandfather, John White, was theatre manager at the Olympic Theater in Dublin around the turn of the 20th c.? Jean also confirmed the twin aunts, Mary and Cecilia, were born in Limerick. Given they were born in 1922, and all that was going on in Dublin at the time, perhaps Edward and Mabel felt it was safer there.

This is all just fascinating to me. Do you manage the Punch family tree on Ancestry? I've set up an account and tree there, and that tree comes up as a frequent source/match. Also did DNA testing to verify the White/Holt line, so if you have as well, perhaps we could do a one-on-one match as well on GEDmatch?

Comment by Mari Steed on June 16, 2017 at 8:49am

And sorry, forgot to answer the question about Eileen: I had never heard of her. Is she listed in any of the census, 1901 or 1911? I don't even recall coming across a birth entry for her.

Comment by Kieron Punch on June 19, 2017 at 5:35pm

Hi Mari, it's great to hear from you. I have also been in touch with Jean. She only lives about 15 miles away from where I live here in Coventry (and works only about 8 miles away), while one of her brothers also lives in Coventry.

Eileen is mentioned on the 1901 and 1911 censuses:
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai003676540/
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai000025547/
She was born in the United States, as was Mabel, during the 2 or 3 years that Arthur Holt had moved the family to Chicago in the late 1880s-early 1890s (I don't know why they moved there, or what brought them back to England and Ireland).

Eileen was apparently a very headstrong girl who, according to family legend, wanted to run away and become an actress in a theatre company. This was always believed to be the Abbey Theatre but I wonder if there could, instead, be a link with John White and his Olympia theatre. In an attempt to get Eileen to settle down Arthur Holt got her a job in a shop (you can see from the 1911 census that she is listed as a shop assistant) but she was very unhappy in this role and so ran away from home in 1912. Before leaving, she told my grandmother, Olga, that she when she returned she would bring Olga the largest toy doll in the world, but Eileen was never seen again. Apparently Arthur spent most of his savings trying to track down his daughter, including hiring Pinkerton Agents in the United States in case Eileen returned to the land of her birth. The loss of Arthur's wealth can be judged from the fact that at the time of his death he was living in a far more humble house in Reuben Avenue, Dublin, than the larger property they owned in Melrose Avenue at the time of the 1911 census.

Can you access/view British editions of the TV show 'Who Do You Think You Are'? The episode featuring celebrity choirmaster, Gareth Malone - episode 5 series 12 - shows the inside of the Olympia theatre and tells much about its early history. One of Malone's ancestors was a famous stage performer called, Daniel Lowery, who performed at the Olympia in the late 1800s - around the time that John White, was the manager. From what I remember of the programme the theatre had a considerable collection of old documents from that period. It might be a good source for you to pursue if you are still researching the White family.

The Punch family tree on Ancestry is actually 'owned' by my brother, Michael, but it is me who has put most of the information on those pages. I have not yet done a DNA test but do plan to do so at some time in the future. I will let you know when this happens.

Comment by Mari Steed on July 4, 2017 at 6:42pm

Thanks, Kieron. Believe it or not, I was actually standing outside the Olympia not two weeks ago, while staying around the corner in Dublin. Unfortunately, it was closed. Later that week, I attended a play in the Abbey's smaller theater. I definitely would like to get in touch with them as I'm sure they'd have some great old historic records. I found a documentary also online about Jack Doyle and his return to Ireland, and I swear I spotted Arthur walking alongside him. Jean had sent me the photo below of Arthur with his father Edward, likely at the height of his young singing career. For comparison, I captured a still of the young man walking with Jack Doyle. Amazing stuff. My mother Josie was also quite a formidable singer, so I suppose I come by my own early theatrical pursuits and singing quite honestly!

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