Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Robert A Mosher on November 28, 2014 at 10:18am

I googled "military kilkenny" and found this - haven't read it yet, may later because the topic is interesting -

http://eprints.maynoothuniversity.ie/5279/

Robert A. Mosher

Permalink Reply by Kevin Quinlan on November 28, 2014 at 10:37am

Thank you VERY much Robert...I have downloaded and saved the thesis and I will look forward to reading it! The introductory summary of the thesis' content sounds very interesting indeed!

Best Regards,

Kevin

Permalink Reply by Robert A Mosher on November 28, 2014 at 10:25am

http://www.from-ireland.net/history-muster-military-kilkenny-1690/  Another link of possible assistance.

Permalink Reply by Kevin Quinlan on November 28, 2014 at 11:32am

I have assumed that - since my ancestors are tied to a majestic Catholic cathedral in Athlone, that my ancestor born in 1761 may have been in the Kilkenney military of The United Irishmen during the time of the Irish Rebellion of 1798 and in the aftermath of the Rebellion migrated westward to Athlone where my Great, Great Great Grandfather was born in 1800.

-Kevin Quinlan

Permalink Reply by Paul Thomas Meagher on November 30, 2014 at 3:55pm

Mr. Quinlan, With some regret, you should know that if the official record of that time read "military" they meant, exclusively, British Army. United Irishmen or members of any other insurrectionary movements would have been noted in the official record as "rebels", never as "military". Kilkenny Castle was the ancestral home of the Butlers of Ormond, from long before the Battle of the Boyne the most prominent landlords in the counties Kilkenny, Tipperary and Waterford. Kilkenny town was a garrison town of the British Army. Most (although not all) United Irishmen activity during the 1798 rebellion, in that part of the country, was confined to the counties Carlow and Wexford. The term "souper" referred to Irish converts to Protestantism following the Famine (mid 1840s) as this was often a requirement to be admitted to a workhouse or to be fed from a soup kitchen. Regards, Paul Thomas Meagher.

Permalink Reply by Kevin Quinlan on December 2, 2014 at 11:19pm

Dear Paul Thomas Meagher,

Thank you very much for your very valuable information. Your information - as you correctly assumed it would - disturbs me greatly to know that my ancestor was a British Military man in the late 1700's...I can only take some comfort to know that he apparently held strong to his Catholicism rather than convert to Anglican or Protestantism. (There are several generations of Quinlans in the church records of that St Peter & Paul Cathedral in Athlone that I mentioned prior...)...I was astonished to learn through recent research that the Roman Catholic Church in Ireland actually sided with the British Crown forces against the 1798 Rebellion! I was so surprised to read that!

Again my sincere thanks for your insightful information.

-Kevin Quinlan

Permalink Reply by Robert A Mosher on December 3, 2014 at 6:24pm

Kevin - for what it's worth, he probably didn't have a lot of choice.  Soldiering in the ranks was generally not considered a good career choice, but for those whose skills were limited to farm work or general labor it was an alternative to the work house or emigration.  It's also worth noting but not necessarily relevant to your ancestor's case that Irishmen were encouraged to enlist in the army in order to learn soldiering and thus be better prepared a planned future rising.  The rebels of 1798 were generally more effective when they had previously served in a local militia or volunteer unit (regular army enlistments were longer in those days and less useful to the revolutionaries for this purpose).  The Roman Catholic Church as an institution was almost always supportive of the existing power structure in each country of Europe as the constituted authority (and if a monarch chosen by God!).  However, that never prevented individual priests and prelates from openly supporting the rebels.. All of us doing genealogical research, I think, have to accept that sometimes our ancestors did things we would rather they hadn't - but I think we have to realize how difficult it really is to put ourselves in their shoes (unless they happened to leave us letters, diaries, memoirs, etc) and we need to cut them some slack and assume that they made the best choices they could depending upon their circumstances.

Permalink Reply by Kevin Quinlan on December 3, 2014 at 8:52pm

Thanks Robert...I really appreciate your reply very much and like all that you wrote and I agree. They lived under distressed conditions at best...and probably made the choices that they felt were best to preserve their lives and their family's well-being at the time.

This particular ancestor (Athlone from Military Kilkenney) of mine...His Grandson lived through the famine as a youngster in Athlone, emigrated to America in 1858 age 19 from Galway to Castle Gardens, NY...steamship up to Southington, CT to work on a farm...Then two years later enlisted in Hartford in 1861 to fight for the 12th Regiment CT Volunteers...fought through the entire Civil War under the command of John W. Deforest...so always a military family.

Permalink Reply by Gerry Regan on December 9, 2014 at 2:23pm

Interesting question, Kevin. I don't have a ready answer. Has an online search turned up anything of interest. I imagine not or you would have updated us here.  Might 'From Military Kilkenney" might simply mean the information was from "Military Kilkenney" or perhaps the birth was recorded in military records held in Kilkenny or connected to the county in some way. I do imagine that checking with the Athlone historical society might provide some actionable information, or at least facilitate more networking

Permalink Reply by Kevin Quinlan on December 9, 2014 at 9:15pm

Gerry,

Thanks very much for your 'out-of-the-box' thinking (in a GOOD way) !...Your pointing-out that "from Military Kilkenney" could have multiple meanings inspires me to push onward in my search and your idea to contact the Athlone Historical Society for their insights is something that I will do next...I will report back to you. Thanks for your great website and forums.