The Irish Character?

Count me in!

A "brilliant" idea, Geraldine. We should call on the media to get on board. If there are Black History Month and Hispanic Heritage Month, why not the Irish? The Irish Central article was very helpful I'm sure in fighting the negative variety items,and plaudits to the AOH for getting the ball rolling. I wrote to The Christmas Shops to tell them they made the right decision, ethically and financially.

March was declared IrishHeritage moonth by Harry Truman and each year the president issues a proclomation.  Each of us can workon this in our own communities

My G G Grandfather Dominic Burke and also other relatives were Irish and until recently I did not think much about this. I live in Australia we have a lot of silly stereotypes about us. When I first saw the poster I laughed but then when I really thought about it I saw it as derogatory. When I think of Ireland I think of friendly people with a good sense of humor and pride. I think of a lovely green countryside. My ancestors had to overcome a lot of things I think I get my strength from them and also my silly sense of humor. PS there are no Kangaroos hopping down the main road. Take Care Lynette

If in fact Truman did declare March as Irish Heritage Month it seems none of us knew about this. I will research and see if in fact it already exists and perhaps all we would need to do is take it to, fly our flag and submit some pieces to the local media for inclusion into papers and perhaps other forms such as radio and TV.

Well, I looked and found on Wikipedia that yes indeed he did declare March as Irish-American Month. Not only he, but others that followed. I wonder why most of us have ever heard that?

The very reason the double standard exists  is because we allow it to do so. Ask any "Irish" person in a plastic green hat with shamrock on his vest,why wear green or the shamrock. Learn our language and true cultural traditions.We deserve the same respect others get. They demand respect, we need to as well. If you are Irish in your Hart stand up and object to the same old stereotyping. There are other ethnic groups with far higher rates of alcoholism than the Irish. We have been quiet far too long.

I have just fired off an email to the NC Public Television system about speaking with someone to assist in promoting March as our month. This may work in your area as well. Tomorrow I will approach my local newspaper and TV stations as well. I will keep you posted on my progress.

For a number of years I've been pitching the media to do articles about Wild Geese member Jim Hawkins, a seanchai, or Irish storyteller, who speaks at schools, libraries. community centers, etc., as a counter to all the green beer and leprechaun silliness. There have been some successes: The NY Daily News, Newsday, News 12-TV, among others. But yet to succeed with the NY Times, Wall Street Journal, USA Today.... We have to continue to strive to have Irish culture recognized for its richness and contribution to American life.

Look what I have found on the WWW!

http://irishamericanheritagemonth.com/

  Aye, I'm proud of my heritage & am torn both ways Danny.  As a wee lad our school had its bullys.  I tried ignoring them, was considered a "sissy" & the teasing went on.  One day enough was enough & I exploded into the 3!  Their surprise enabled me to give them  some souvenirs!   No more a pain in my side but they continued their bully ways.For sure I stopped them around myself but others elsewhere were just as bad.  I couldn't whip the world but I could bring some peace in my corner!  Can ye see my point?

es your point is very clear. All of us at one time or another needs to standup for ourselfs!

Here in Britain the anti-Irish "joke" has been used to denigrate the Irish for centuries. The jokes were arguably of a more vicious nature than those which appeared about the Irish elsewhere in the world because here they were used to reinforce British racial superiority and as a justification for conquest, suppression and continued occupation e.g. the beneficent British surely had to remain in Ireland to prevent the ape-like, feckless, irrational, barbaric, thick/stupid Irish from murdering each other.

Such "humour" flourished in the pages of publications such as "Punch" in the late 19th Century, and coincided with the resurgence of Irish nationalism and the Home Rule movement. Most recently it reached new heights of abuse during the post-1969 Troubles, and was to be found throughout the British press (broadsheets as well as tabloid rags), TV, pubs, clubs, the workplace and even in the Oxford English Dictionary - in the early printings of the Second Edition of this work, which was published in 1991, a definition of "Irish" was that it was a synonym for something "thick", or "stupid". Complaints from the Irish community in Britain resulted in this definition being removed from later printings of the dictionary. This, of course, merely reflected how a barage of negative sterotypes, mostly a result of jokes, had caused the British public to believe that Irish people were indeed stupid, and that that had become part of the everyday language. It was common for British people to say "That's a bit Irish" if they saw something stupid, or irrational, or "Stop being Irish" if someone said, or did something silly.

Of course there was a very dark side to this humour, and how it affected the million strong Irish-born population in Britain and their children. There are the obvious manifestations of racial hatred such as the "No Dogs, No Blacks, No Irish" signs that would appear in boarding houses and hotels, but perhaps more damaging was the way the British population did not raise an eyebrow to protest when the draconian Prevention of Terrorism Act, aimed largely against the Irish community, sailed through Parliament on the back of anti-Irish hysteria, reinforced by humour's negative stereotyping. This act resulted in thousands of innocent Irish people being arrested and held without charge for 7 days, and numerous others being deported.

It was not pleasant at times to be Irish and living in Britain during the 1970s and 1980s. The Irish community was viewed so negatively and with such distrust, that they mostly kept their heads down. Many, in fact, tried to hide their Irishness...I remember reading a report about Catholic schools in England in which 90-95% of the children were Irish born, or had irish parents, yet where virtually none of the children admited to being Irish for fear of being ridiculed as stupid, or bullied because of The Troubles. It has also been stated that the negative portrayal of the Irish in Britain contributed to the Irish community here having the worst mental health of any non-British ethnic community.

Thankfully the ceasefires of the 1990s and Good Friday Agreement have seen a rapid decline in anti-Irish humour here in Britain, and following 9/11 the British have found a new target for their nasty brand of bigoted humour - the Muslim community. Hopefully the Irish community in Britain will recognise it for what it is and refrain from participating in "raghead" jokes, etc.

I would recommend that members try to get hold of a copy of Liz Curtis's excellent, short book, "Nothing but the Same Old Story: The Roots of Anti-Irish Racism" http://www.amazon.co.uk/Nothing-But-Same-Old-Story/dp/1901005003

This is a famous cartoon that mocked the bigoted British comedian, Bernard Manning, who was famous for his crude anti-Irish "jokes"

Thank you that was very good!

Found a sign in Big Lots tonight that reads: "IRISH PUB - IF YOU CAN WALK OUT YOUR NOT DRUNK ENOUGH"

Talked to manager, he referred me to corporate.Sent email, we'll see what happens

Found similiar items in local Wal-Mart and sent email to corporate. Keep you posted!

As an update for all Wild Geese, I have written not only my district Congresswoman but also the Governor of North Carolina. I'll let you know about any response or the lack thereof.

Just two cents worth of input. From 1992 to around 2008 I helped put on a Ceili every St. Patrick's day in St. Paul, Minnesota with a group called Minnesotans for a United Ireland. Not a drop of alcohol was present and there'd be 500 or so people there every year. We'd sell pop (our term for soda in Minnesota) and Irish soda bread and coffee and tea. People might have a pint before and/or after but it was a very fun family event every year.

Every year we see newspaper inserts and television advertising, sponsored by major corporations, hailing Black History Month, Hispanic Heritage Month, etc. I realize that some of this is an attempt to be politically correct, but there's also a marketing element. Why can't some of these firms highlight the many contributions of Irish Americans to US history?

Education is the key to eradicating the stereotypes-newspaper, radio, etc  And I think  we have to concentrate on the PEOPLE.  Many Americans , including the Irish Amer have no knowledge of Irish history. .They sing "The Fields of Anthenry' at the pub but have no idea about the Great Hunger.  Mention Robert Emmet, Jim Larkin,  and you are met with blank stares---Wild Geese-Isn't that a local  Celtic rock group?  Yes, but where did the name originate?  Blank stares.  IRA they know, thanks to the brilliant British propaganga machine here in US but UVF, UDA, blank stares. No one wants to be preached to but opportunities do come up when we can spread a little bit  of knowledge and God knows I don't have much but I have spoken to some Irish born who are lacking , which just amazes me.  Several years ago Sears had a mildly offensive t-shirt and I spoke to the manager.  The next week they were gone.  Maybe they were all bought up by local idiots. Spencer's is hopeless.  I called head office in NJ and spoke to a Kevin Mahoney (I think that was his name).  He informed me he was a proud Irishman-after all his father was a NY firefighter and they walked in the St Patrick's Day parade..  I told him to take the shirt home to his Irish mom and see how she reacted,  The shirt is a common enough one "F**** me, I'm Irish".  I called back the following week and asked his mother's reaction.  He said  she laughed.  Sometimes we are our  ownworst enemies. Believe me, I;m no prude and I have heard that word many times in my long life and in Ireland it doesn't bother me a bit but  when I see these 20 somethings along the parade route swilling bottles out of their pockets it just infuriates me.  Enough for today

Thank all of you for your comments! I believe our next path should be one of action. Not physical by any means, but one of education, community involvement and media blitzing, Purchase and fly an Irish Flag beside the American one, letting everyone know you are proud to be Irish! In the coming days look for ways you can start to be that difference in your community. BTW, don't forget your home!

Mark, good for you.  Sounds like a lot of fun.  I find dancers don't drink much-bad for concentratio and balance!!!And we need both.

Yes, Jean, we do. You can't impress too many people with your dance moves when you're falling down.

I will say that incidences like this one just today do not help our cause:

Young Dublin man loses his life after taking part in ‘NekNomination’

It is a sad thing! The young seem to believe that being trashed and acting in a manner that they perceive to be "GrownUp" is the way it is supposed to be. You are correct Ryan!

Binge drinking by young adults is certainly not unique to Ireland though, Ryan. Here in the states is a huge problem at many colleges and universities, and it's not all Irish-American kids doing it.

No doubt, Joe.  Wasn't implying that binge drinking is in any way unique to Ireland.  I've seen it other places in the world aplenty.  However, we're discussing Irish stereotypes here, and my point in posting the link to that story was to state that a) there is a sense in which heavy drinking is part of the "culture" here in Ireland, and b) perpetuation of that culture (including all the nonsense like the ridiculous "Irish yoga" t-shirts and "Irish drinking team" t-shirts, etc.) will continue to have tragic and devastating results within our families and society as a whole.

I think the biggest problem with the Irish stereotypes is that they stem from a campaign of hatred and bigotry from the very beginning. It was very easy to paint the Irish as slovenly, stupid, lazy and continually drunk, and then use that to promote an agenda which was very anti-Irish and completely hateful. In the 1800s, the average Londoner or New Yorker held the average Irishman with complete and utter disdain. These stereotypes were ushered in through seemingly innocuous cartoons, which parodied the entirety of the Irish race. They were made to look like apes (showing how the Irish were animalistic and crude), oftentimes holding bottles of alcohol and just laying about, allowing everyone else to do the work for them. Many of these cartoons were drawn by Thomas Nast, and helped to fuel the already mistrust of the Irish in the US. 

I do know that while most take these stereotypes in stride, many more are very offended by the continuation of such hatred. Since much of this was propagated during a very bleak time in Irish history (these cartoons by Nast were on the heels of An Gorta Mór, for example), it just seems to show a complete and utter disregard for the suffering that the Irish were having to endure during that period. In other words, the Irish are always looked at in these ways, but it's never remembered WHY these stereotypes actually came about, and why they were generally believed without question. I think many people would be shocked if they knew. 

An example of Nast's artwork:

Even though binge drinking is rife in other countries as Ryan says it really is considered a culture here in Ireland. It might seem quaint to say wet the baby's head or give him/her a good send off. But it just shows that drink is involved from the cradle to the grave and considered an insult if you do'nt join in. It would be OK if it was a rare occasion but drink is very much part of everyday life here in Ireland for most people. It is true stereotypes were used in history to suit the means of others and today is more a marketing ploy. But the truth is the Irish drink a lot. Not just the young but all ages. That does not mean we deserve to have racist comments or jokes made about us but until Ireland as a nation have a more healthy relationship with drink it will continue. 

It is not just the young that are doing this necknominations a lot of the 30 somethings around here are doing it to, I know people who have done it. Hopefully it will stop after the tragic deaths within the last few days. 

You've summed up the situation here in Ireland well, Bernie.

Bean.  Yes.  Thomas Nast was a notorious bigot .  Although he was a German immigrant himself and supported American Indians,  the Chinese and the abolition of slavery he hated the Irish Catholics.   He particulary hated 'Boss Tweed' and Tammany Hall and maybe was responsible for Tweed's downfall. Tweed escaped from prison (fraud)and went to Spain where he was recognized by someone from one of Nast's cartoons. He was arrested and sent back to NY.  His cartoons of ape like, drunken Irish were popular in Harper's Weekly and New York Times.

Dan, Thank you for your email about Irish-American Heritage Month.  Unfortunately, UNC-TV does not produce events like you describe in your email.  I have shared your email with the producers of North Carolina Now and North Carolina Weekend so that they will know about the month and its significance.  Thank you for sharing all of this information with us. Shannon

Vincent Brown on TV3 is having a debate on our cultural identity with alcohol at the moment 

Ryan.  Not being adept at the computer I was unable to submit my comments on the site you suggested for the editorial.  Where els can I send them?  Jean

Hi, Jean.  You can email them to me at ...

(my first name) @TheWildGeese.com

I have twice experienced inappropriate responses to stereotyping in a professional situation. I worked in a newsroom that was highly sensitized to racism and double standards. Yet, when a St. Pat's feature on a local town included every negative stereotype of Irish people that I could think of...drunks, fighters, etc. I complained to the regional editor, who was Native American and very vocal about stereotypes, and she brushed me off. No one I complained to took me seriously. The other instance was on a continual basis. I worked with a woman of Irish American heritage and everything she said about the Irish was a heavy handed putdown. I could understand her bitterness as her immediate family experienced much tragedy. Yet, I couldn't believe the comments she said out loud in the newsroom and no one said anything but me. I am very sensitive to all ethnic groups, and I know how to tell an appropriate joke from a malicious barb. But her comments were outrageous. I always said to her, in a gentle way, that she was being offensive to not only her ancestors but my father, who was born in Ireland, and all my relatives. It never got through. The double standard is detrimental to our culture. When I think people have gone too far I let them know...in a nice way. I would never say some of the comments I hear about other peoples' families and cultures.

Thanks for those comment, Patdee.  That's one of my biggest gripes -- the woefully obvious double standard that very few people will recognise.  Very few folks who admit the double standard exists will show much concern about it.  It's ridiculous.  Either we should refrain from racial stereotypes of ALL KINDS, or go no-holds barred ... but the double standard is absolutely beyond comprehension.

For anyone interested there is a piece in today's (Thurs) Pittsburgh Post Gazette written by Brian O'Neill promoting  an Irish sport ing event (boxing) being sponsored by the AOH www,post-gazette.com/opinion.  Don't know if this is on the computer yet.  I plan on calling Mr. O'Neill to thank him