Comments - Passing for White: Race, Religion, and the Healy Family (1820-1920) - The Wild Geese2024-03-29T10:52:46Zhttps://thewildgeese.irish/profiles/comment/feed?attachedTo=6442157%3ABlogPost%3A107509&xn_auth=no"Healys never actively aligne…tag:thewildgeese.irish,2014-08-25:6442157:Comment:1148472014-08-25T23:41:49.062ZJohn Edward Murphyhttps://thewildgeese.irish/profile/JohnEdwardMurphy
<p><span style="font-size: 13px;">"Healys never actively aligned themselves with the African-American nor with the Irish-American communities." <br></br></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 13px;">Yes, you're undoubtedly right. On the other hand, they didn't seem to have much emotional ties to Ireland.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 13px;">Joseph Kennedy didn't seem to have any emotional ties to Ireland, either. Some reports show him being annoyed when he was identified as Irish. He…</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 13px;">"Healys never actively aligned themselves with the African-American nor with the Irish-American communities." <br/></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 13px;">Yes, you're undoubtedly right. On the other hand, they didn't seem to have much emotional ties to Ireland.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 13px;">Joseph Kennedy didn't seem to have any emotional ties to Ireland, either. Some reports show him being annoyed when he was identified as Irish. He rightly insisted he was an American.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 13px;">I liked you commentary above and your linked article referenced above.</span></p>
<p></p> In my reading, the Healys nev…tag:thewildgeese.irish,2014-08-25:6442157:Comment:1147782014-08-25T03:09:23.651ZJim Gouldinghttps://thewildgeese.irish/profile/JamesGoulding
<p><span style="font-size: 13px;">In my reading, the Healys never actively aligned themselves with the African-American nor with the Irish-American communities. </span>Since three Healy brothers became priests and three of the girls became nuns (one left after a short while), I surmise that the Healy conscience was <span style="font-size: 13px;">more</span><span style="font-size: 13px;"> "Catholic" than African-American or Irish-American. Yes both the Blacks and the Irish were way down on the…</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 13px;">In my reading, the Healys never actively aligned themselves with the African-American nor with the Irish-American communities. </span>Since three Healy brothers became priests and three of the girls became nuns (one left after a short while), I surmise that the Healy conscience was <span style="font-size: 13px;">more</span><span style="font-size: 13px;"> "Catholic" than African-American or Irish-American. Yes both the Blacks and the Irish were way down on the ladder of society at that time, but through Bishop Fitzpatrick's and the Jesuits mentoring and their intellectual ability, they were destined to make significant contributions to the Church of that time. Also, "passing for white" does not mean "passing for Irish". See the piece that I wrote here a few months back for a fuller treatment of this extraordinary family: <a href="http://thenewwildgeese.com/profiles/blogs/the-healy-s-an-extraordinary-family" target="_self">http://thenewwildgeese.com/profiles/blogs/the-healy-s-an-extraordinary-family</a></span></p> And another book to add to my…tag:thewildgeese.irish,2014-07-29:6442157:Comment:1086612014-07-29T17:09:58.060ZBit Devinehttps://thewildgeese.irish/profile/BitDevine
<p>And another book to add to my reading list...</p>
<p>Fascinating ... Often in my lectures I elude to what Neil has already mentioned.. the Irish were indeed considered the lowest of the low... perhaps you are correct in stating that choosing Irish over Black was the lesser of two evils when trying to avoid jail, a noose or lashings</p>
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<p>And another book to add to my reading list...</p>
<p>Fascinating ... Often in my lectures I elude to what Neil has already mentioned.. the Irish were indeed considered the lowest of the low... perhaps you are correct in stating that choosing Irish over Black was the lesser of two evils when trying to avoid jail, a noose or lashings</p>
<p></p> You're right John, it was mos…tag:thewildgeese.irish,2014-07-28:6442157:Comment:1087152014-07-28T19:22:54.593ZMichael Quanehttps://thewildgeese.irish/profile/MichelQuane
<p>You're right John, it was mostly about Patrick. I guess the Fordham in me just blocked out the Georgetown Healy.</p>
<p>You're right John, it was mostly about Patrick. I guess the Fordham in me just blocked out the Georgetown Healy.</p> Hi Michael,
I think your past…tag:thewildgeese.irish,2014-07-28:6442157:Comment:1087142014-07-28T18:51:01.889ZJohn Edward Murphyhttps://thewildgeese.irish/profile/JohnEdwardMurphy
<p>Hi Michael,</p>
<p>I think your pastor’s sermon alluded not to Michael Healy (the hell raiser); but to James Augustine Healy (Bishop of Portland), Patrick Francis Healy (the Jesuit and one time president of Georgetown University); or Alexander Sherwood Healy, (the canon law expert).</p>
<p>Still I’m glad you liked my post. Next go read my post on the Irish Survivor of Hiroshima.</p>
<p>By the way, I see you live in Hempstead. I was stationed a t Mitchel AFB back in 1957.</p>
<p>Hi Michael,</p>
<p>I think your pastor’s sermon alluded not to Michael Healy (the hell raiser); but to James Augustine Healy (Bishop of Portland), Patrick Francis Healy (the Jesuit and one time president of Georgetown University); or Alexander Sherwood Healy, (the canon law expert).</p>
<p>Still I’m glad you liked my post. Next go read my post on the Irish Survivor of Hiroshima.</p>
<p>By the way, I see you live in Hempstead. I was stationed a t Mitchel AFB back in 1957.</p> Very illuminating, John. I fi…tag:thewildgeese.irish,2014-07-28:6442157:Comment:1086012014-07-28T12:21:33.108ZMichael Quanehttps://thewildgeese.irish/profile/MichelQuane
<p>Very illuminating, John. I first heard of Michael Healy in a sermon by a now deceased rector of St. Agnes Cathedral in Rockville Centre, NY. The good Msgr.'s "sermons" were often anecdotes about great Catholics in American history. Not everyone was a fan, but I loved hearing them.</p>
<p>Very illuminating, John. I first heard of Michael Healy in a sermon by a now deceased rector of St. Agnes Cathedral in Rockville Centre, NY. The good Msgr.'s "sermons" were often anecdotes about great Catholics in American history. Not everyone was a fan, but I loved hearing them.</p> Hi Neil and Jean
Thanks for y…tag:thewildgeese.irish,2014-07-27:6442157:Comment:1076982014-07-27T18:23:26.651ZJohn Edward Murphyhttps://thewildgeese.irish/profile/JohnEdwardMurphy
<p>Hi Neil and Jean</p>
<p>Thanks for your commentary.</p>
<p>As you point out, the Healys didn’t deny their African-American heritage. But they seemed to emphasized their Irish heritage rather than their African-American heritage. Or perhaps they allowed others to emphasize their Irish heritage. Why? My guess is that, in spite of the existing Nativism sentiment in mid-19<sup>th</sup> century America, it was easier to be Irish American than African American. Also, their departure from…</p>
<p>Hi Neil and Jean</p>
<p>Thanks for your commentary.</p>
<p>As you point out, the Healys didn’t deny their African-American heritage. But they seemed to emphasized their Irish heritage rather than their African-American heritage. Or perhaps they allowed others to emphasize their Irish heritage. Why? My guess is that, in spite of the existing Nativism sentiment in mid-19<sup>th</sup> century America, it was easier to be Irish American than African American. Also, their departure from antebellum Georgia made them fugitive slaves. Who know, being “reinvented” as Irish- Americans, may have reduced the potential of being arrested as fugitive slaves and returned to bondage in Georgia. Ugh! </p>
<p>As you point out Michael Healy was a legendary member of the US Coast Guard. <b><i>Passing for White …</i></b> covers his exploits, particularly his effort to import reindeer into Alaska to serve as pack animals. (Unlike sled dogs, reindeer could forage for their own food). The Coast Guard Cutter <b>HEALY</b> (WAGB - 20) is named for him. Go visit <a href="http://www.uscg.mil/pacarea/cgcHealy/" target="_blank">http://www.uscg.mil/pacarea/cgcHealy/</a></p>
<p>DO read <b><i>Passing for White … </i></b> I’ll let Professor O’Toole (Boston College) defend the title selection. Regardless it’s a great read.</p>
<p>Now go read my Hiroshima story. I think you'll find that interesting.</p>
<p> </p> Thank you for the review, ver…tag:thewildgeese.irish,2014-07-27:6442157:Comment:1077482014-07-27T17:20:13.220ZJean Sullivan Cardinalhttps://thewildgeese.irish/profile/JeanSullivanCardinal
<p>Thank you for the review, very interesting.</p>
<p>Thank you for the review, very interesting.</p> Very interesting review. If…tag:thewildgeese.irish,2014-07-27:6442157:Comment:1079032014-07-27T14:10:49.826ZNeil F. Cosgrovehttps://thewildgeese.irish/profile/NCosgrove
<p>Very interesting review. If I recall PBS did a special focusing on Michael Healy, he is considered a legend in the Coast Guard. However I do have to question this books title, as it doesn't seem that the Healy children did any "passing for white" as they never, per the sources, denied their maternal ancestry. Why does the book's author say they "redefined themselves as Irish-Catholics"? They were legitimately both, no redefinition needed. There is no contradiction here.</p>
<p>The…</p>
<p>Very interesting review. If I recall PBS did a special focusing on Michael Healy, he is considered a legend in the Coast Guard. However I do have to question this books title, as it doesn't seem that the Healy children did any "passing for white" as they never, per the sources, denied their maternal ancestry. Why does the book's author say they "redefined themselves as Irish-Catholics"? They were legitimately both, no redefinition needed. There is no contradiction here.</p>
<p>The other problem I have is that if these people were as proposed were attempting to "pass for White" in the early to mid-19th Century, then they made a poor choice in redefining themselves as "Irish Catholics". Remember that this was the height of Nativism and the Know Nothings. Especially in Yankee New England the Healy's would likely have found more acceptance as African Americans then as Irish Catholics. We forget that Lyman Beecher (Harriet Beecher Stowe of "Uncle Tom's Cabin" fame father) was one of the principle instigators of the burning of the Convent in Charlestown Mass and in her other writings his daughter seems to have inherited his biases. The implication that identifying oneself as an Irish American was the road to social acceptance in the mid-1800's is historically incorrect. I think anyone that thinks that someone of African American and Irish ancestry would gain an advantage in emphasizing the Irish American Catholic side in 19th Century America is reading history through a 21st Century lens.</p>
<p>It's a titillating title, but I think it does an injustice in implying that these heroic individuals were somehow flying under false colors, when in fact to their great credit they apparently never did. </p>