Comments - Ireland and the Spanish Armada: A Story of Survival - The Wild Geese2024-03-28T23:59:00Zhttps://thewildgeese.irish/profiles/comment/feed?attachedTo=6442157%3ABlogPost%3A211236&xn_auth=noThis is a most interesting ac…tag:thewildgeese.irish,2021-05-10:6442157:Comment:2931852021-05-10T06:32:33.564ZRosemary Hayeshttps://thewildgeese.irish/profile/RosemaryHayes
<p>This is a most interesting account of the English and Spanish at war.It was a cruel time and am amazed at the numbers killed ..I need to read more to grasp the politics , religious significance and brutality of such times yet have times really changed?War ,grasp for power ,intolerance .</p>
<p>It is with different values today I find it hard to be objective and grasp the enormity of lives lost.as recorded .</p>
<p>To the notion of Black Irish ,my aunts talked of it.I saw it at first hand…</p>
<p>This is a most interesting account of the English and Spanish at war.It was a cruel time and am amazed at the numbers killed ..I need to read more to grasp the politics , religious significance and brutality of such times yet have times really changed?War ,grasp for power ,intolerance .</p>
<p>It is with different values today I find it hard to be objective and grasp the enormity of lives lost.as recorded .</p>
<p>To the notion of Black Irish ,my aunts talked of it.I saw it at first hand in our family .Ten family members ,some blue eyed,blond hair ,while others not only black hair but darker skins .</p>
<p>My aunt used to say and believe,"It was the Spanish ".Further to that when I had genetic testing done,I was 93% Irish ,Scandinavian 4% and Iberian peninsula 3% .The last was a shock.</p>
<p>Therefore a mixture of cultures from whence one came..</p>
<p>Thank you for the interesting article and look forward to the book JohnA.Brennan,</p> Thanks for the info Brian. It…tag:thewildgeese.irish,2017-01-16:6442157:Comment:2116102017-01-16T18:55:42.896ZJohn Anthony Brennanhttps://thewildgeese.irish/profile/johnABrennan
<p>Thanks for the info Brian. It is a wonderful story for sure.</p>
<p>Thanks for the info Brian. It is a wonderful story for sure.</p> Nicely written... I read De C…tag:thewildgeese.irish,2017-01-16:6442157:Comment:2115122017-01-16T14:37:59.340ZBrian Nolanhttps://thewildgeese.irish/profile/BrianNolan
<p>Nicely written... I read De Cuellar's letter/diary some 40 years ago one afternoon in the Sligo Public Library. De Cuellar was one of at least twenty survivors who made it home to Spain. His letter was actually a letter of apology to King Phillip II ... explaining how he lost the King's ship and begging for forgiveness...and more work. His description of the poverty of the ordinary Irish peasant was a picture that endured for the next three hundred years in rural west Ireland. Poverty beyond…</p>
<p>Nicely written... I read De Cuellar's letter/diary some 40 years ago one afternoon in the Sligo Public Library. De Cuellar was one of at least twenty survivors who made it home to Spain. His letter was actually a letter of apology to King Phillip II ... explaining how he lost the King's ship and begging for forgiveness...and more work. His description of the poverty of the ordinary Irish peasant was a picture that endured for the next three hundred years in rural west Ireland. Poverty beyond our imagination, a poverty that got worse in the next thirty years with the Plantation of Ulster and the Flight of the Earls. No doubt when the Lord of Tirconnell, Red Hugh O'Donnell, Taoiseach of the O'Donnell clans, fled to Spain after the disastrous Battle of Kinsale on Jan 6 1602, he recounted to King Phillip II, how the O'Donnells helped protect the poor Spanish and Portugese sailors after the Armada, confirming De Cuellar's account. Phillip II of Spain had the title 'King of Ireland appended to his long list of titles after his marriage to Queen Mary of England (Queen Elizabeth I's half sister). However he never pursued that title after Mary's death, and maintained some diplomacy with the Elizabethan court. The O'Donnells never fully understood that subtlety. They were promised by both the Spanish Kings. Phillip II and Phillip III, that they would give the O'Donnells assistance to regain their ancestral lands in Ireland, but the tentacles of the Elizabethan spy network extended even to Spain where in late 1602, Red Hugh O'Donnell, Lord of Tirconnell, was poisoned by James 'Spanish' Blake at Simancas Castle, Valladollid, while en-route to meet King Phillip III.</p>
<p> </p> Glad you liked it Mike. As fo…tag:thewildgeese.irish,2017-01-15:6442157:Comment:2115072017-01-15T22:19:01.662ZJohn Anthony Brennanhttps://thewildgeese.irish/profile/johnABrennan
<p>Glad you liked it Mike. As for the chests read de Cuellar's letter.</p>
<p>On the subject of the 'black' Irish, read my reply to Robert's comment above...</p>
<p></p>
<p>Glad you liked it Mike. As for the chests read de Cuellar's letter.</p>
<p>On the subject of the 'black' Irish, read my reply to Robert's comment above...</p>
<p></p> Another interesting collectio…tag:thewildgeese.irish,2017-01-15:6442157:Comment:2114092017-01-15T22:10:56.083ZMike McCormackhttps://thewildgeese.irish/profile/MikeMcCormack
<p>Another interesting collection of comments inspired by your submission JAB. Allow me to put in my 2 cents. First of all, I doubt that a broken chest of gold, silver and jewels would have been the cargo on a warship and that it would have 'washed up' rather than sinking of its own sheer weight! However, that aside, it is a great article and the comments prompt me to add that the math shows that 26,000 troops on 130 ships would be about 200 per vessel and that comes close enough to the…</p>
<p>Another interesting collection of comments inspired by your submission JAB. Allow me to put in my 2 cents. First of all, I doubt that a broken chest of gold, silver and jewels would have been the cargo on a warship and that it would have 'washed up' rather than sinking of its own sheer weight! However, that aside, it is a great article and the comments prompt me to add that the math shows that 26,000 troops on 130 ships would be about 200 per vessel and that comes close enough to the estimate of 5,000 lost in 24 wrecks. However we must remember that if any did survive the wreckage, like de Cuéllar, they too would have found themselves IN ENEMY TERRITORY and did their utmost to get out of there ASAP. The old myth that surviving Spanish influenced the D&A of generations of Black Irish would have meant that surviving sailors thought more about Irish colleens than their own skins -- and while Irish colleens are breathtakingly beautiful, its doubtful that they entertained any wayward sailors. It is my belief that the term Black Irish refers more to the hair color than the skin-tone. It was (and in some places still is) a custom to add a reference to hair color to a person's identity such as 'Red' Hugh O'Donnell and Hugh 'Dubh' O'Neill, Dubh meaning Black. Further, fair-skin and black-hair were traits of the original Celtic people, ie: the Gauls in France as well as the MiIesians who arrived from the western edge of Celtic Spain known as the Port of the Gaels (port au Galli) or Portugal. The influence of the Vikings gave us the blonde and red hair (Eric the Red) while still remaining fair-skinned. Thanks for the tale! . </p> Yes Robert we certainly are a…tag:thewildgeese.irish,2017-01-15:6442157:Comment:2115012017-01-15T20:32:28.992ZJohn Anthony Brennanhttps://thewildgeese.irish/profile/johnABrennan
<p>Yes Robert we certainly are a race apart. When you factor in the influence of the Tuatha de Dannan, who were a race who had mastered the art of the supernatural, it only goes to reinforce the power that we Irish possess. </p>
<p>Yes Robert we certainly are a race apart. When you factor in the influence of the Tuatha de Dannan, who were a race who had mastered the art of the supernatural, it only goes to reinforce the power that we Irish possess. </p> Thanks for that, JAB. We Iris…tag:thewildgeese.irish,2017-01-15:6442157:Comment:2112002017-01-15T20:22:52.460ZRobert Emmett Maguirehttps://thewildgeese.irish/profile/RobertMaguire
<p>Thanks for that, JAB. We Irish are quite the mishmash aren't we?</p>
<p>Thanks for that, JAB. We Irish are quite the mishmash aren't we?</p> Glad you enjoyed my article R…tag:thewildgeese.irish,2017-01-15:6442157:Comment:2114082017-01-15T20:17:40.146ZJohn Anthony Brennanhttps://thewildgeese.irish/profile/johnABrennan
<p>Glad you enjoyed my article Robert. As for the 'Black' Irish there were a few races who inhabited Ireland that had dark skin and features namely the Fomorians, the Fir Bolg and perhaps the Milesians too.</p>
<p><font face="Calibri" size="3">The Fomorian swere reportedly seafarers, possibly pirates. It is written that they originally came from Northern Africa or Carthage and are described as having dark hair and skin.</font></p>
<p><font face="Calibri" size="3">The Milesians left Egypt around…</font></p>
<p>Glad you enjoyed my article Robert. As for the 'Black' Irish there were a few races who inhabited Ireland that had dark skin and features namely the Fomorians, the Fir Bolg and perhaps the Milesians too.</p>
<p><font face="Calibri" size="3">The Fomorian swere reportedly seafarers, possibly pirates. It is written that they originally came from Northern Africa or Carthage and are described as having dark hair and skin.</font></p>
<p><font face="Calibri" size="3">The Milesians left Egypt around the time of the exodus and eventually settled in the Iberian Peninsula (Galicia and Northern Portugal).</font></p>
<p><font face="Calibri" size="3">The Fir Bolg were from Greece..</font></p> My mother, Elizabeth, was bor…tag:thewildgeese.irish,2017-01-15:6442157:Comment:2112902017-01-15T19:37:28.152ZRobert Emmett Maguirehttps://thewildgeese.irish/profile/RobertMaguire
<p>My mother, Elizabeth, was born and raised near Bonnyconlon, Mayo, right at the foot of the Ox Mountains.</p>
<p>She used to tell me that a teacher of hers told her that she had Scandinavian blood, though I would have guessed Spanish what with the jet black hair that she had.</p>
<p>Whether Viking or Castilian, I imagine that the wild coast of Mayo came in for quite a few visits from foreigners. There sure are quite a few remnants of those visits, my mother being one example.</p>
<p>When I…</p>
<p>My mother, Elizabeth, was born and raised near Bonnyconlon, Mayo, right at the foot of the Ox Mountains.</p>
<p>She used to tell me that a teacher of hers told her that she had Scandinavian blood, though I would have guessed Spanish what with the jet black hair that she had.</p>
<p>Whether Viking or Castilian, I imagine that the wild coast of Mayo came in for quite a few visits from foreigners. There sure are quite a few remnants of those visits, my mother being one example.</p>
<p>When I have visited with cousins in Ballina, we would go to the nearby Belleek Castle which boasts a bar made from wood of an Armada ship.</p>
<p>Thank you for the rundown on de Cuellar. That's a new story for me and very, very interesting. What a life he had!</p>
<p>As far as the term "black Irish" is concerned, years ago I made a point of asking some relatives in Ireland about the term. They had never heard it to describe the light skinned, dark haired Irish. I'm guessing it might be a term used by us Irish Americans, but I stand by to be corrected.</p> Agreed Frank.tag:thewildgeese.irish,2017-01-15:6442157:Comment:2110922017-01-15T19:20:52.643ZJohn Anthony Brennanhttps://thewildgeese.irish/profile/johnABrennan
<p>Agreed Frank.</p>
<p>Agreed Frank.</p>